" I assure you, I will not get upset if someone turns in a project based on the belief of another world religion. Having said that, does that mean it might not offend me? Not at all! No one has the right to not be offended. It would be presumptuous of me to try to prevent public expression of a belief simply because I don't agree with it. I guess you have a right to your belief that religion should be kept out of public schools. As long as you don't try to impose your belief on everyone else, I have no problem at all. Once you try imposing your beliefs on others and attempt to force others to go along with you, I will fight you every step of the way. Luckily, this is what happened here. As far as what religions get the airtime? I guess whichever ones are freely expressed. "

" To all of you who don't approve of my "written flatulence" let me say this.

I have always been a "good little catholic boy," and not just an Easter Mass kind of catholic either. Where I guess I stop being "religious enough" is that I think that I don't have the right to subject everyone else to my religious beliefs when I feel like it. Maybe it's because I moved out of Tomah several years ago and am not as in touch with the local social structure.

I believe in the seperation of church and state, just as James Madison and Thomas Jefferson did when they wrote the Constitution. Now I know, there is no "seperation of church and state" in the Constitution, but there is also no right to unlimited "religious expression" either. The Bill of Rights gives you the right to unlimited "religious exercise", and no one is in any way limiting a person's right to go to church when they want, or believe what they want, in this instance.

Also, A Lawyer, congratulations on your chosen profession. I too have a law degree, although I only practiced for 3 years before moving on to a position that I find much more enjoyable. Does my resume, or your resume, make our opinions any more right? Particularly with our educational background. Have you ever met an ingenuous attorney? I don't think I know any! :) Are you saying that, had the school district come to you for services, you would have advised them to serve as their own counsel in this instance? It's true, the school could have completed the required documentation on their own, but without the necessary subject matter knowledge, it probably would not have been advisable. Now, I know plenty of people who talk themselves out of a job, so maybe that would be your advice, and if so, I apologize for being so presumptuous.

Now, the reason I think that religion should be kept out of a PUBLIC school is relatively simple. How do you decide which religions get the airtime? As someone thought to point out earlier, 85% of the population in this country is Christian (although the number is actually closer to 75%, why quibble over the details?) However, worldwide, only about 30% of the population is Christian, the rest of the top 3 include Islam (approx 20% and Hindu (approx 15%). So, outside of our ethnocentric viewpoint, nearly 70% of the world does not believe Christ is their Savior. Are you willing to give this other religions due attention? Would you be offended if your children were being taught tenets of another religion in school?

Personally, I think children should learn about every major religion at some point. Myself, I have read the Bible, the Koran, and several books about various Taoist subjects, Hindu texts, and the teachings of Buddha, but that was just for fun, well, I suppose it was partly work related as well. In my opinion, though, that particular topic is something that someone should explore on their own time, or in a religious setting, not in a public school. It's my experience, and found througout human history, that people of different religious beliefs typically don't get along, and frequently end up in large scale wars over their differences. I just think that these types of problems are better avoided in the school environment, even if that means that I have to draw a landscape that's just hills and trees without tossing in some religious beliefs as well.

My problem with this whole matter is that I am of the opinion that no one would be as up in arms if this artwork was of a tenet of another religion, and that many people would probably support the policy were it not a Christian project involved. I have been enough places, and seen enough things that I may have a different perspective than someone who hasn't spent as much time outside of West Central Wisconsin. I certainly don't see any of you blogging on the other articles against the criminal charges filed against the Necedah folks who were just expressing their religious belief that Jesus would resurrect the dead woman in the bathroom.

However, I tend to ramble, so I promise to make this my last post on the issue if everyone else promises not to get upset when someone turns in a project based on a religious belief found elsewhere in the world.
"

" Your post is written flatulence. I don't even know if I agree with you, because it is so hard to understand what you are trying to spit out. Yes, the unjust policy was changed so now any student is free to express their religious views. We know this. What is your point? "

" Star in Holman......another point, but now by the athiest to remove it because "one" person is offended, guess now they will go after Holman and the star......they do have attorney's on their side if you read the news...they are just waiting for small town drama over religion.....it opened a can of worms. Now, ANY RELIGION can be displayed because you got the "unjust" policy changed. Guess it isn't unjust anymore....remember, this does not affect only the Christian point of view. We also pay taxes to public schools, yet separation of church and government??? Only when it reaches the hands of the one at the pulpit. "

" First, wouldn't religions paying taxes be a violation of the so called separation of church and state? Second, are you saying no one should ever stand up and fight against a policy they find unjust? Third, you are entitled to your opinion. Why is this student not entitled to his? Finally, are you saying no one should ever take legal action to fight what they think is an unjust policy unless they ascertain that the other side can afford legal representation? "

" Here is the point: When this Christian student was bullied into not expressing his religious views, I didn't see anyone from any of these other religions step up to defend him. In order to be defended, he had to go to a Christian based law firm. The comment you refer to, if you go back and read the posts, was in response to a belligerent post from an anti-Christian. Please enlighten us as to what we are missing? My impression is this teacher was attempting to enforce an unjust policy. The student objected to the policy on the grounds it limited his right to religious expression. When the teacher wouldn't budge, he sought legal assistance and the policy was overturned. End of story. What am I missing here? "

" Ms. Millin and family have more support in the community then they may be aware of. You said it beautifully. It's sad that this made national news, presented falsly by so called Christian's. That in itself if a BIG deal. Anyone from another state who has asked me, and there have been many relatives, exactly what it was about. When they heard the WHOLE story, there was a different tone....and they are Christians too that don't believe that this was necessary. Had the school had a big lawyer firm with several attorney's backing them, would be interesting when all is said and done exactly what is "just" and what is "unjust", guess we will never know but we will always remember what happened in Tomah. Small town overthrown by so called "christian's" backed by a zealest bunch of attorney's. Had the kid and his family had to pay for this, well, we probably would not have had the publicity or spotlight on a small town. They would have reached an agreement without all the legal fees. All religions should pay taxes, I as a Christian am appaulled at all this. I thought it was about unselfishness, not selfish....all these cults that say they are the chosen people, etc. Laws to cover everything from molesting young children to "Bleeding the Beast", all in the name of Christian's?? If religious rights are being trampled on, their should be attorney's available without expense to defend their religion, not just the "christian" point of view. It's the "all about me" attitude like the one who said "let them pay for their own attorney's"......how "christian" is that??? Another example to me that organized religion has gone to far and wants to "rule" American....but which "christian's" are correct??? "

" Typical, it has become vogue to treat other religions with kid gloves and mock Christianity. So, had it been another religion represented, nothing would have been said about it. Having said that, any student of any religion would have had the right to do what this student did, which is object to a bogus policy. You don't necessarily check all your rights at the schoolhouse door. "

" Most people don't see it that way, including the Superintendant who changed the policy. The teacher was enforcing an unjust policy. If she had really wanted to be an example, she should have stood up with the kid and said you have a right to express yourself through your artwork. Not saying the teacher is a bad person. Just misguided. In this case, it was the student who taught the teacher something. We should all learn something from this. The student should be applauded for his courage in fighting an unjust policy. "

" Why can't people agree to disagree without all this name calling. If you can't make your thoughts known on a subject without resorting to name calling then you need to take an anger management course. "

" If this would have been a saying about budda or satan in the clouds she would have done the same thing and all you so called reasonable people would be applauding the teacher. If a saying from the book of islam would have been there and this would have happened not a peep would have been said. No this is just christian crying about nothing. Lets see a teacher with years of flawless teaching with no record of any wrong doing and teaching thousands of our children in TOmah school or one selfish brat with MOMMY and DADDY setting this up to make a point. I guess I know which person I would back on this. You people are pathetic treating Mrs. Millen this way after she has made a difference in more people than any of you can possibly even know. Her husband also is a very dedicated teacher and has changed as many lives with his thoughtfullness and skills as a teacher. One punk of thousands and you treat them like this. You should all be ashamed of yourself. "

" No, I am correct. You can spend a lot of money defending against a lawsuit, but you don't have to. "

" Why would Christians provide muslims with free legal advise? The muslims didn't provide the Christians with any. Let them get their own legal advise. "

" As an attorney you should know that a court case requires researching all prior case law as well as state statutes, not a minor undertaking financially. We should get rid of all lawyers if we really do not need them, the world would be a better place! Now answer the question, when a Muslum puts floating verses from the Karan will you fanatical "Christians" provide them free legal services to protect their rights? "

" I was in on the meetings and you are incorrect. "

" Let me encourage you to readjust your thinking. The last paragraph of your 3:40 pm post is really quite sad. Just because one is a student at a public school, it doesn't mean you check your rights at the schoolhouse door. There is nothing that says students can't be exposed to views they disagree with. Banning religious speech or expression is not neutrality toward religion, it is hostility toward religion. Thankfully, the school district recognized this. "

" See post below from the lawyer. Not being able to afford the expense of defending against a lawsuit is a crock. Thank you for at least being honest in acknowledging that the teacher did indeed agree to grade the project if the student took it home. Having said that, your analysis is way off. It is mind boggling that you can't see that the policy itself is unjust. Clearly, the school policy banned religious expression. There should be no debate whether that is just or unjust. This should be a no-brainer. "

" "A "Chris King" type of person, for lack of a better term believes very strongly that schools should embrace and espouse Christian ideals and provide an ecclesiastical education at a public school. That type of person would just as strongly believe that their god fearing christian children should not be subjected to Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu or any other belief structure in that same school because it would interfere with their "proper" education..."

Wow, I don't even post on this board, and yet my name is brought up. Actually, I would be flattered if this poster would have framed my arguments in an accurate light. I HAVE SAID ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS THAT I DON'T CARE WHAT POINT OF VIEW IS ON THE TABLE, AS LONG AS THE CHRISTIAN POINT OF VIEW IS NOT IGNORED, BELITTLED OR DISENFRANCHISED. I COMPLETELY AGREE THAT RELIGION SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT IN GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT INDEPENDENT PERSONAL EXPRESSION SHOULD BE DISALLOWED! FURTHERMORE, I DON'T SEE MUSLIM, HINDU, BUDDHIST, ETC... POINTS OF VIEW BEING DISREGARDED AS CARELESSLY AS CHRISTIAN POINTS OF VIEW. IN FACT, WHILE IT IS POLITICALLY INCORRECT TO DISPARAGE THESE RELIGIONS, IT SEEMS LIKE THE NEWEST VOGUE TO BELITTLE CHRISTIANS. AS LONG AS CHRISTIAN EXPRESSION, SPEECH, AND POINTS OF VIEW ARE SINGLED OUT SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE CHRISTIAN, WHILE OTHER RELIGIONS ARE TOUTED AS SOMETHING TO BE HANDLED WITH KID GLOVES, MY "ILK" AND I WILL BE IN THE FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHT TO SPEAK AND EXPRESS THE TRUTH! "

" I too saw that the teacher offered to grade the project if the student would take it home. Again, this is not an admission that the policy was unjust. I wish the teachers and school district hadn't done that sort of thing in this instance.

They were just trying to head this whole ridiculous situation off and "meet the student in the middle." They should have realized that this student was the type of person who would not be appeased by anything short of giving them exactly what they wanted.

You people keep seeming to think that the teacher trying to de-escalate the situation, and the school not being able to afford the cost of the court process as admissions of guilt. They aren't.

Maybe the teacher thought the student was a decent kid and used their discretion to offer to bend the rule a bit in this instance. I'm not saying that's what happened, but there are a million reasons a teacher would offer to do that without the rule being "unjust."

Think of it this way, if you get pulled over for speeding, but the cop gives you a warning, does that mean that the rule is unjust? Not hardly, the officer is just using their discretion based on the totality of the circumstances as they're presented. The problem in this instance, is that the kid was "offered an inch, but took a mile" taking the teacher's offer as a weakness to be exploited, rather than trying to be amicable. But, we all know you folks are good at misinterpreting things to suit your interests. "

" I believe she also asked him to remove the floating bible verse or cover it.....he refused, that's the point...he got what he deserved, he did his time but, "Missing the point..." hit the head on the nail.....therein lies the problem. And yes, we will all remember when our taxes for schools are raised just why they are soooo expensive. "

" Your post on May 12th at 7:47pm is, to put it kindly, written flatulence. You don't need significant financial means to fight a lawsuit. You don't need to hire a lawyer or be a lawyer to answer a complaint and show up in court to argue your case. It would have taken a couple hours for the Superintendant or another administrator to file an answer, and maybe a day off work to show up in court if it came to that. The school caved because they knew the policy was unjust. Make no mistake about it. "

" I based my statement on the fact that people who believe something as strongly as those who feel the policy was "unjust" do, they believe just as strongly that every other opinion is wrong, and to one degree or another, silly.

If you can honestly tell me that you would have been just as appalled at the limitation of a picture of a religious symbol, or God, you don't believe exists and a religious perspective that you think is totally wrong, then I apologize. Perhaps you are one of those truly saintly people who fight against the "oppression" of all mankind. I should have said "most people on your side of the argument" and not singled you out specifically.

In my pragmatic, and probably somewhat cynical experience in the world, people, particularly in this country, become outraged when something they believe in is "oppressed" and don't really pay much attention when someone else's beliefs are.

A "Chris King" type of person, for lack of a better term believes very strongly that schools should embrace and espouse Christian ideals and provide an ecclesiastical education at a public school. That type of person would just as strongly believe that their god fearing christian children should not be subjected to Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu or any other belief structure in that same school because it would interfere with their "proper" education.

Which is why, although I am a Christian, I think that all religious beliefs should be checked at the door in a PUBLIC school, even my own. If a person wants a religious education, they can go to Aquinas along with all the good basketball players in the area. "

" It was the teacher who said she gave the student the option of receiving a grade if he took it home. Is it your assertion she didn't give him that option? "

" Everyone tends to get more worked up when they are the ones being oppressed. It is human nature. Having said that, what do you base your assertion on that I would be adamant that the policy should not be changed had a Hindu student been involved? "

" Yep, this was a case of Christians coming together to protect their constitutional rights. I don't think it is in any Christian's best plans to protect the rights of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, tree worshipers or any other religion. In America, most groups fight for their rights that are in their best interest. Typically two or more groups only unite when it is in each groups' best interest. So, let the other religions fight for their rights. It's not our job, and it would be in conflict with our faith to assist in the perpetuation of religions that are in conflict with Jesus Christ and the Christian religion. Yes, the schools must be neutral when it comes to religion, but I'm not going to raise the issue if a religion besides Christianity is being discriminated against. I know it seems unfair, but that's just the facts folks. I will fight for equality on most issues, but the government has to be neutral on religion, not me. "

" to May 12, 8:42 a.m. I look at it like that is probably just another lie, just like the other examples they used to compare "landscapes", what's your point??? As far as stopping you sure were all protesting, going National news and all, so it will be small town talk for a long, long time....... "

" The point is that the only reason all of you think the policy was so "unjust" is because it was a Christian project that was at the center of this.

If a person from a different religious background had fought that hard to get a grade for a picture of Shiva floating in a landscape with a Hindu phrase scrolled along the border, you would be just as adamant that the policy should not have been changed, and probably would have wanted the kid arrested for disorderly conduct or something for tearing up the policy and throwing it at the teacher.

You people certainly don't get this worked up when other religious groups are oppressed. You're not that skilled at hiding the transparency of your hypocrisy.

That's the real problem with the school backing down on this issue. It's going to be viewed by all you zealots as an admission of guilt, when it shouldn't be. Your little "champion of religious freedom" took advantage of the school districts financial inability to maintain a legal procedure and won a "victory" against a policy that was neither unconstitutional or unjust. "

" You people miss the point. Some policies and restrictions are just. This one obviously was not. So, the moral of the story is, don't just blindly follow orders. When something is unjust, don't be afraid to question it. By questioning this policy, the student was able to affect change. Another key is that the teacher was willing to give the student a passing grade on the assignment IF HE TOOK IT HOME. That tells us there was nothing wrong with the students work itself regarding the assignment. Savvy? "

" Does anyone really fully know the whole story? The student got the publicity he wanted and the story is over with. Why continue to re-hash what no one really has all the information about? The teacher did her job and the student exercised his "rights." Let it go and lets move on the important issues in the world. Starving kids in Africa or world peace... stc. "

" I've seen hundreds of landscapes with horses in them but no floating verses. If the kid is seeing floating verses, he has some kind of medical problem and should be treated....oh, that's right, cults don't use doctors, they "pray" people will be brought back to life after their stupidity..... "

" Doesn't lanscape by definition have restrictions? Wouldn't all the examples of landscape paintings have laid the groundwork along with classroom rules? "

" I was always under the impression that art was a form of expression, and how a person perceived the world around him/her. If he
would have drawn a horse instead of the landscape, then yes, fail him. He drew the landscape as he sees it. If he drew it as his teacher saw it...it wouldnt be art. "

" See, this did open a "CAN OF WORMS".....you are either a Nazi for supporting the teacher and for rules/policies to be followed and thinking this was frivolous and the student was wrong OR you are a cult member....what next?? "

" So now anyone who dares to support the teachers and speak against the clut is a nazi.I do see the patternj I espceted to see. You don't have a dead lady in your bathroom do you? "

" Not a Nazi, just a parent that made my kids behave, do their homework and follow the rules while in school. I take it you are raising your children to be non-conformists. Does this mean you tell them to stand in class when their supposed to sit and run down the halls yelling and screaming instead of walking? Or do you think they just don't need an education, because the State requires children under 16 to attend school? If you want your kids to be non-confomists, home school your kids, and start your own religous cult! "

" Well, tell your kid then to be a non conformist then. Don't follow any of the rules. You missed the point entirely....typical "christian" attitude, that's WHY I DON'T PARTICIPATE in organized religion!!! "

" What so nazi about that?? Following directions?? Something "wrong" with a bird house as a chapel?? You have to be creative also, not be beligerent. "

" You sound like you would have made a good Nazi. Follow orders. Conform. Don't question authority. Lucky for everyone, this student does not share your beliefs, and the policy is now changed. "

" I don't know if you've noticed, but schools and government in general determine everyone's rights all the time.

There are all kinds of rules at the school that limit a person's freedom, i.e. dress code policies, making them stay in class while it's in session, not talking during lectures, all kinds of rules that limit their ability to "express" themselves.

Students do have the same rights as everyone else in the US, they have the right to follow the rules or be subject to punishment.

I doubt you all were so up in arms when the government went in and arrested all those polygamists out west, even though all they were doing was trying to express their brand of religious beliefs. You just don't like it when someone says or does something against YOUR beliefs. Perhaps you should grab a dictionary and look up the word "hypocrite."

I really think the school needs a few nice Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist or some other cultural students or exchange students to share their beliefs and see just how far your desire to allow all religious expression goes. "

" I would hope if he chose to put a cross on a bird house, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Following directions and respecting those in authority are all that is required of any student. "

" the student wouldn't have built a cross instead, but a bird house with a cross on it. "

" The whole thing seems dumb to me. That a teacher can determine the students rights. That is bogus!! Students should have the same rights they have in school and out of school.....like the rest of the U.S. population. Furthermore, if they are trying to stop kids from portraying their religious beliefs to others then they would have to ban all clothing from the school also, such as t-shirts from church retreats, tatoos, ect. "

" See 4:11pm post "

" duh.........those pictures that you mention were not done in the same art class! Thus, no, they do not have anything to do with the landscape assignment. Too bad AP and his family swayed public opinion with falsehoods- how unchristain like. "

" Obviously you are wrong. If you were correct, why would Fasbender say the odds were long on the school winning the lawsuit? Also, why did the teacher say she would grade it if he took it home? If he truly wasn't following instructions, what difference would it make if it was hung up or taken home? The schools policy was unconstitutional. It is now changed. Savvy? "

" Um, I don't know if you have seen the drawings submitted by a couple of other students, but they featured huge portraits of demonic-type figures, with no landscape ANYWHERE. "

" The student has every oppotunity to share his "faith' in the building.What he did was not follow classroom instructions.Instructions like "build a bird house" but he decides to build a cross. "

" There was less than a 50/50 chance the school district would prevail? But, the student should have just "followed directions"? Which is it? If the policy was wrong, someone had to stand up and be heard to get it changed. Is the superintendent suggesting students just accept injutice without question? What kind of lesson is that? Kudos to the student. "