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Published - Thursday, April 24, 2008

POST COMMENT | READ COMMENTS (18 comment(s))

Letter: Godless have killed more than the Godly

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In the April 7 Tomah Monitor-Herald newspaper, Robert Weitzel wrote a guest opinion. In the article he tells the story of the little girl from Weston, WI, who died because the parents did not seek medical help for her fast enough. The parents believed in praying if their kids were sick, which Bob ridiculed with the statement, “regard their faith in God with a lousy track record for healing.”

Bob writes that he is sickened by apparently religious parents that would let their children die because of their faith in God. Bob states that between 1975 and 1995, 140 children died in the U.S. because their parents prayed instead of seeking medical help.

My faith in Bob is diminished because in the same article he states, “the overly religious United States, which is one Supreme Court vote away from overturning Roe vs. Wade in order to protect the rights of an undifferentiated bundle of cells in a woman’s womb,” in other words an unborn baby.

Just the fact that Bob would write about his anguish of 140 little kids dying because of parents’ mistakes in praying instead of seeking medical help then in the same article he writes that he fears abortion might be made illegal and that the killing of 40,000,000 babies since 1973 might be stopped makes his compassion suspect.

Let’s review what Mr. Weitzel’s beloved godless society has inflicted on the world in the last century. In Russia between 1920 and 1950, 40,000,000 peasants, intellectuals and other dissidents were murdered. China did not like the educated class, so 60,000,000 were eliminated. Hitler and the Nazis took it one step further. They believed in evolution and survival of the fittest and so determined that 9,000,000 Jews, God’s chosen people, should be gassed, but of course who believes the Bible. That’s the nightmare we arrive at with your way of thinking, Bob. I’ll take the U.S. and the 1st Amendment any day.

Author’s note: The United States has the Bill of Rights, China and Iran have the United Nations Charter to protect their children. Where would you want your children to live?

Kenneth Franks,

Norwalk
.
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Bob is right wrote on Apr 29, 2008 2:58 PM:

" First off the letter is all over the place - Abortion? Government? Bill of rights? Bob made a point about another incident where religious people ignor all logic and common sense to believe in magic. If you believe in this non-sense - great, just leave the logical people alone and spend time praying for me while I enjoy life. "

Dont lump everyone together wrote on Apr 29, 2008 9:22 AM:

" You really can't lump together all Christians, or members of any particular denomination, together based on the actions of a few people. God can and does heal people every day, but he also gave the doctors the wisdom and skill they have to help us. The majority of Christians do go to doctors. A small minority of people have been misled into thinking that it's a lack of faith to see a doctor. That doesn't make them criminals. As far as the children, I believe they're in heaven now, perfectly healthy and happy. Before people bash the Bible, they should read it. There is nothing in the new testament advocating violence against nonbelievers. You're confusing it with the Koran. "

gjd wrote on Apr 28, 2008 9:48 AM:

" Kill em all and let God sort them out. "

SINESTRO wrote on Apr 28, 2008 8:16 AM:

" I know where i dont want my children to live-Norwalk! "

Chris King wrote on Apr 25, 2008 3:00 PM:

" I am not Catholic. "

RTFM wrote on Apr 25, 2008 1:54 PM:

" The title of this article is absolutely false! You have that backwards. Religion has been the root of more deaths on this planet than anything else. Just take the Christians bible for instance.
Thats just what's in the bible, not to mention all the wars to force your religion on others since the birth of Christianity. "

re chris king wrote on Apr 25, 2008 12:59 PM:

" one interesting thing is that only about 20% of this country is catholic which IS THE ONLY RELIGION based on your view. SO your saying that the rest of us 80% of the pop. should just sit down and shut up and listen to your vast knowledge of the world. I work with people like you. Religious nuts that every time someone says dinasaur or galaxie they role their eyes and say thats false the earth is only 6000 years old. I guess since the bible says the four corners of the earth it is accually flat and not round like the scientist believe. I am a lutheran christian. Not quite up to your standard or the popes standards as a religion but you make me sick. You of the stir the pot religion to make yourself better than the rest of us is just sickening. "

Rechris king wrote on Apr 25, 2008 12:15 PM:

" You will know them by the fruit of their works.What fruit is this bearing you and your ilk? It is in fact turning away many you would claim you want to save. "

Chris King wrote on Apr 25, 2008 9:44 AM:

" Politicizing Jesus and Christianity...Really? What you are failing to understand is that in America the citizens are the government. Christians did not start this battle. We were quiet in the pews at one time, then secular humanist started targeting our free speech rights, and we were forced into the political arena to defend our God given right to a safe, moral and free society! When a majority of the citizens in this nation are Christians, then it is inevitable that politics and Christianity will cross paths. Again, I repeat, myself and other Christians are not pushing for any type of theocracy, but it is imperative that our government uphold morality. Furthermore, it is imperative that any group that is having it's first amendment rights crushed do whatever they can to maintain that voice. In America every voice has the right to be heard, even if you don't agree with that voice. Again, I don't have a problem with every voice being on the table, as long as the Christian voice is also allowed. I am confident that those God choses to call to Him will be called, in spite of the anti-christian/god voices out there. The problem is that many of those voices are systematically attempting to remove the Christian voice from the spectrum! It cannot be allowed to happen. Tolerance for every point of view except the point of view that believes that there are moral absolutes is the current trend, and that is simply intolerable! Let everyone have a voice and in the end it will all sort itself out! That is what Democracy and freedom of speech, religion, press, etc. is all about! "

so pathetic wrote on Apr 25, 2008 8:18 AM:

" Just the title alone to this "editorial" is so pathetic it is beyond understanding. "

reChris wrote on Apr 25, 2008 7:05 AM:

" The politicizing of Jesus and Christianity is a terrible thing that you and your ILK have done. "

Robert Weitzel wrote on Apr 24, 2008 5:52 PM:

" Chris King, I thought you'd like to know.

The three major religions in China are Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism. Muslim's are 2%-3% of the population, Christian's are an estimated 1%.

The government of China is officially atheist, which is what all governments should be . . "without a belief in a god," plain and simply. That's called a secular government, Chris. Have you read our constitution lately? Again, what is your point.

"

Robert Weitzel wrote on Apr 24, 2008 2:34 PM:

" Chris King,

Those would be COMMUNIST countries. Sorry, I'm not going to take your argument on faith. I don't do faith. If you have numbers (proof) that "atheist societies" (whatever that mean) have caused more death and destruction, I want to see your information and your sources. If it's irrelevant to the argument, don't bring it into the argument.

Here's an assignment a religious scholar such as yourself should enjoy. Give me (well, us) all the passages in the bible ( and the number of victims) where "your idea of a god" told his people to murder, rape, enslavement. Throw in a little incest to maintain the real interest of the masses. I happen to know that that task will keep you busy for a while. And when you're finished, we'll all know that you are an intellectually honest religious scholar . . . or not. but hurry, these threads don't stay active long.

But you are right about one thing. I was never really born-again. Thank (your idea of a god) for me the next time you mention me in your prayers. If you want to waste your time praying for me to "your idea of a god," have at it. How else can you feel magnanimous .and superior and humble all at the same time.

And Chris, I'm not bitter in the least. In fact, I'm a very funny guy- think Seinfeld . . well . . sort of. It's just that I don't suffer fools well.

"

Chris King wrote on Apr 24, 2008 10:17 AM:

" Again, Mr. Weitzel, why are you so bitter? Are you holding onto your secular/non-theistic humanism because you are bitter towards Christ/God? In one of your other posts you stated that at one time you were born again. Unfortunately, I can confidently tell you that if your current beliefs are sincere, you were never born again. When an individual is truly reborn in Christ, they cannot fall away from the faith. I pray that I am wrong, and your current belief system is not sincere and eventually you will return to your faith in Christ. Otherwise, please read and listen to the following verse. Maybe it will plant a seed that God will grow within your heart...

2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein and overcome, the last state is become worse with them than the first.
2Pe 2:21 For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire.

I will pray for you, and remember not everyone will think of you as a fool or ignorant for having faith in the One True God! "

Chris King wrote on Apr 24, 2008 10:06 AM:

" I was attempting to find some statistics pertaining to this argument, and I did come across information that confirms that atheistic societies have caused more death and destruction. However, it is really an irrelevant argument in the first place. In regards to Christianity, there is nothing within the doctrines and tenants of Christ that would allow for the murder of people. Unfortunately, this only goes to confirm the Christian tenant that all men are guilty and fallen, but for the Grace of God through Jesus Christ. When a person commits an atrocity in the name of Christianity they are the ones that have warped the true religion of peace! The religion is not flawed, people are! "

Agree with Robert wrote on Apr 24, 2008 6:48 AM:

" Although I believe in a "God", I also believe in freedom of choice. All those aborted babies were unwanted by the mother, they have to live with that dicision. What gaurantee are they given if they birth that child that it will go to a loving home?? Or not be abused, or go to a home that "prays" for their children to get well, and allows them to die?? What would have happened to all those "children"??? Course we could be told like China we are only limited to 2 children, so they all want boys so the girls are killed, good plan....pro life does not always mean a GOOD life. "

Robert Weitzel wrote on Apr 22, 2008 6:07 PM:

" Kenneth,

First of all, 40,000,000 "babies" were not killed. But you know that! So I won't waste my time there. Definitely a strawman.

Second, your numbers of dead in China and Russia seem a little low. But, what's your point?

How does evolution have anything to do with the death of the Jews and homosexuals at the hands of the nazis.Survival of the fittest has nothing more to do with the final solution than it does George W. Bush's excuse to attack Iraq. I imagine you were all for "survival of the fittest" thing in that situation. We kicked their camel-driven butts . . right? Tell me I'm wrong. But the final solution was nothing but a manifestation of an in-bred christian anti-semitism that had been percolating in europe for centuries.

Have you ever read any of Hitler's speeches? He uses religion constantly to justify his "final solution." He more than likely didn't believe it . . I'm sure he didn't. But he knew that the morons he was addressing did. Hitler and his henchmen didn't kill all those folks by themselves. And Germany is an exclusively "Christian" nation. He had a lot of good christian help. How do you square that, Kenneth?

America is supposedly an exclusively "christian" nation . . at least that's what guys like you are always saying . . . but you good christians, like the germans in the 30's and 40's, don't mind at all the deaths of the "enemies" children . . . by the thousands.

How about torture as a national policy. Where do you stand on the torture thing, Kenneth? I'm sure you're against the torture of " a bundle of undifferentiated cells in a woman's womb." But what about on a living, breathing, feeling, mother or father . . . Iraqi mother and father, that is? Are you for or against torture?

And since you seem to be up on numbers, how many indigenous Americans were slaughtered by the good "christians" from the old world to conquer this hemisphere? What . . 40,000,000, . . . 60,000,000 . . . 100,000,000? I haven't the slightest idea . . . but it's bigger than we both think.

Forget it, you can't win the numbers game. God is much more deadly than the devil.

"

false comparison wrote on Apr 21, 2008 11:09 AM:

" It's a strawman argument and a false comparison. The little girl allowed to die would say so too. "


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