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Published - Sunday, April 06, 2008

POST COMMENT | READ COMMENTS (139 comment(s))

School art project sparks lawsuit

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School art A U.S. Supreme Court precedent from the 1960s will be used in the case of a Tomah High School senior who contends the school district denied his freedom of religious expression.

An attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal advocacy group representing the student, said Tuesday that Tinker v. Des Moines Community School District, a landmark 1969 case that upheld a student’s right to free speech, will be applied on behalf of a student who received a failing grade for an art project that included religious content. The family of “A.P.” filed a federal lawsuit Friday in the U.S. District court in Madison.

The Alliance Defense Fund claims that “A.P.” received a zero for a landscape drawing that contained a cross and the words: “John 3:16. A sign of love.” It also contends that Tomah High School art teacher Julie Millin has a written grading policy says “art work that has any violence, blood, sexual connotations or religious beliefs will not be accepted.” The Alliance Defense Fund provided the Tomah Journal with copies of A.P.’s artwork and the grading policy.

The complaint asserts that “Students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gates,” which paraphrases Justice Abe Fortas’ majority opinion in Tinker. That case upheld the right of students to wear black armbands in protest of the Vietnam War.

“Tinker remains good law,” Alliance Defense Fund attorney David Cortman said. “I think Tinker is important because it safeguards the rights of students. When you have compulsory education and tell students they have to be in school, you can’t tell students while they’re there that they have no right to speak.”

In addition to failing to receive credit for his art project, A.P. also received a detention when he tore the grading policy in Millin’s presence during class. Cortman defended A.P.’s action as “symbolic speech,” which has been upheld by the Supreme Court in several cases, including the 1990 case that legalized burning the American flag.

“It was done as a form of protest,” Cortman said. “It wasn’t done in defiance. He said, ‘I’m not giving up my First Amendment rights.’”

The lawsuit further contends:

*High school art teacher Marge Genrich censored another of A.P’s projects in her jewelry/art metals class.

*School officials allow other religious items and artwork to be displayed on campus.

*High school assistant principal Cale Jackson told A.P. that his religious expression infringed on the rights of other students.

The lawsuit also claims that Jackson ran Millin’s policy past legal counsel and determined A.P.’s work could be legally censored.

The school district Wednesday responded with a press release that didn’t challenge any of the lawsuit’s specific claims but said it would “vigorously defend itself against the charges in the complaint.”

“To meet our responsibilities, students are required to follow the rules of conduct for their classrooms and the instructions that their teachers give them for class assignments,” the statement said. “While the district respects all students’ religious freedoms, those freedoms are not a license for students to force the school to display religious messages of their choosing or to force the school to accept schoolwork that deliberately defies the rules of the class and the requirements of the assignment.”

The family of A.P. which lives in Camp Douglas, is seeking:

*Full academic credit for A.P.’s project.

*Removal of any record of any disciplinary action taken against A.P. in regard to the matter.

*A ruling that high school art teacher Julie Millin’s grading policy prohibiting religious expression violates the First and 14th Amendments of the U.S. Constitution.

*Recovery of legal fees.

Cortman said the family isn’t seeking any monetary damages beyond recovery of legal fees. The complaint seeks “requested nominal damages of one dollar.”

The Tinker case came up again last year, when the Supreme Court ruled in Morse v. Frederick that a student who held a sign “Bong Hits for Jesus” could be disciplined. The majority opinion said discipline in that case could be reconciled with the Tinker ruling, but Justice Clarence Thomas, in a concurring opinion, disagreed. He called for Tinker to be overturned.

“In short, in the earliest public schools, teachers taught, and students listened,” Thomas wrote. “Teachers commanded, and students obeyed. Teachers did not rely solely on the power of ideas to persuade; they relied on discipline to maintain order ... As originally understood, the Constitution does not afford students a right to free speech in public schools.”
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Linda Smith wrote on Sep 30, 2008 4:56 AM:

" Well....You aren't going to like it....But this teacher should realize that she ran into a member of God's Army,so what did she expect him to do? Roll over and play dead? The underlying reason that this present world will accept anything out there except Christianity, is because none of those religions have any power, EXCEPT Christianity. "

Tyrannus wrote on Apr 30, 2008 5:03 PM:

" AP is a very noble man who deserves to be recongnized as an honorary member of our community. Everyone in America with at least half of a brain stem would agree with me in saying that what AP did was in no way incorrect. He does, according to the US constitution, have the right to create whatever he pleases in a public school (asuming it doesn't inclinate to anything illeagle). The ideas that the school policy suggests are against the founding laws of our nation, which began almost entirely Christian. Were I AP, the Tomah High School should be very afraid of what might happen to it in the future. BTW, I am going to be attending the THS this year so Julie, if you see this, be afeared, be very afeared. "

THS Graduate wrote on Apr 23, 2008 4:41 PM:

" It's about time. It's sad, but something like this had to happen in order for the Tomah School District to wake up. I have been involved and learned of many University approaches and policies in Division 5 (the Midwest) and the word of the decade is "Diversity." This doesn't mean the exclusion of diversity (pretending that everyone looks the same and believes the same things so we can all get along), but instead means embracing differences in race, culture, religion, and belief system. Students who graduate from THS and attend a large University will be surrounded by religions and practices that are different from their own. Instead of professing that fundamentally we are all the same, why dont we expose the nature of our diverse cultures and reap the benefits of a well-rounded education that promotes tolerance and understanding?
Yes, Millins policies were wrong. Very wrong. In my college art classes, art was defined as personal expression. Even in beginning classes, we were encouraged to think outside the box and ideas like A.P.s would have been explored. If Millin thought it was unoriginal, shouldnt she have encouraged him to push the idea further? If he wanted to create religious art, why not talk about El Greco, Michelangelo, da Vinci, etc. What a teaching opportunity!
Even so, without a set policy from the school district, what are teachers to do? I would be scared also. Without support, teachers are on their own. Something like this incident could go either way: students offended by the piece or her censorship of the piece. Im sorry for Mrs. Millin that she chose to support such a policy of censorship (along with other art teachers in the district) due to incompetence on the part of the district. Isnt it always fear that leads to oppression? Its unfortunate that the Tomah Area School District must come to terms with this issue in this manner, but its about time.
To the Tomah Area School District: Stand up for your students, teachers, community, and nation by creating strong policies in accordance with national laws that have been created to protect the rights of citizens. Its your job.
There are practices in the Tomah Area School District that support diversity. The annual powwow and Native American Appreciation Week (or so it was called when I was there) is a wonderful start. What a fantastic practice. Lets build on that! And for goodness sake, demand that the Tomah Area School District create a policy against censorship and a policy for diversity education that includes many religions and cultures. Its about time.
"

brad wrote on Apr 16, 2008 10:51 AM:

" to: "if you think a.p. is doing the right thing"

show me the facts then ive seen nothing that would question my stand on the situation "

It you think A.P is doing the right thing... wrote on Apr 15, 2008 9:41 AM:

" If you think that A.P is doing the right thing---you are wrong. Get your facts right and you will relize that this guy is dumb. "

brad wrote on Apr 14, 2008 8:10 AM:

" read again, i never stated churchill was a founder of this country i said: "do some studying on the major leaders that founded this country and others"

NOTICE: it says this country but it also states OTHERS

read more carefully next time and maybe you will understand what people write. "

re:Brad wrote on Apr 13, 2008 7:37 AM:

" So,Chrchill was a founding father of this country in your mind? "

brad wrote on Apr 12, 2008 1:52 PM:

" correction to post: i stated 2nd amend. sorry it's the first. "

brad-To:re brad wrote on Apr 12, 2008 1:46 PM:

" first off the lawsuit isnt about the teacher its ultimately about the schools policy a.p. has not filed against the teacher everyone on this comment section is focused on how the teacher was treated the real case is against tomah schools not tomah teachers so like i said before focus on the big picture. this kid is at least standing up for morals and principles as for the disrespect i would like to know if any of you were there to witness the paper being torn was it done disrespectfully. you all argue about unknown facts the only argument is weather or not a school has a right to diregard the second amendment (Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.)i dont see anwhere in there it says seperate church and state it says state will not establish religion. peacefull assembly was used the kid didnt bring a shotgun gun to school to rip the paper i think he did it under his explained rights founded by this country. look at the back of your five dollar bill youll notice it says in god we trust if you still dont believe in moral christian beliefs ill send you my address so you can forward all monies that you have with the words in god we trust. point is the country was founded on the beliefs this kid stands for and you wouldnt have the freedoms you do if people didnt stand up like this kid is now!!! thank you "

Jon wrote on Apr 12, 2008 1:43 PM:

" Re: TO:Brad...AKA Yawn.


You obviously read it. Enough said.

Brad doesn't just bring up a good point, he is stating solid moral facts. This should save the rest of us a lot of hot air... "

To: Brad wrote on Apr 12, 2008 12:45 PM:

" "Minors into majors" The kid should heed this advise. He's a punk. And, I agree, your previous post was extremely boring. "

A Big Deal wrote on Apr 12, 2008 11:12 AM:

" I never said I was religous! I just give kudos to this kid for standing up for what he/she believes, and kudos to the parents and everyone else backing him/her up! "

re brad wrote on Apr 11, 2008 11:42 PM:

" WHy does everyone say it was better back when. When what- blacks could not go to white schools , when native americans could not go to our schools, when duck and hide was common practice before a nuke went off. Its interesting that you so called christians want to go back to the good old days when white male christians were in complete charge of brainwashing our kids and over what was said in our schools and public buildings. The kid was wrong. he should say he was sorry for doing this to this quality teacher. Maybe aquinas would want this puck of a kid and family. "

brad wrote on Apr 11, 2008 10:39 PM:

" first off i never claimed to be a profeshunaul wrighter. punctuation was not my point. you focus your attention so much on the minor things in life that the majors pass you by. < (look thats a period!!) read my prior post do some studying on the major leaders that founded this country and others.they had morals and stood for good genuine principles that is why they are remembered as great men in history,look em up (lincoln,roosevelt,reagan,churchhill,and many more) there is no need for me to say more on the subject the proof is history itself.

side note: try not to turn the minors into majors instead turn your majors into minors everything in life will go much easier for you "

David Moseley (The Transporter) wrote on Apr 11, 2008 9:44 PM:

" Even though I am away from Wisconsin at the time due to military obligations, I still follow with interest local happenings. I personally believe that A.P could have taken better action thatn tearing up the signed agreement in front of the teacher. It probably would have been best if he would have refused to sign the paper. Depending on the outcome of that action, he could have gone from there with appropriate action. I am a Bible believing Christian who believes in free speech,but I would almost have to side with the school board on this one. "

To:Brad wrote on Apr 11, 2008 1:50 PM:

" Yawn....you get the prize for the most boring post. Too long...bad punctuation...you expect people to read that? And to top it all off...you're wrong. I just skimmed it but think I got the point after I woke myself up. "

Support the teacher wrote on Apr 11, 2008 1:46 PM:

" Support this teacher and discipline the student. It's too bad nutjobs have to attach themselves to these issues like barnacles on a boat. "

To:re Chris King from GD wrote on Apr 11, 2008 12:47 PM:

" Ditto. Pretty scary, isn't it? Let's just hope he isn't anywhere near children. "

re: Chris King from GD wrote on Apr 11, 2008 12:31 PM:

" I would chose any faith that YOU are not connected to. If ever there was poster boy for atheism, it's you. "

Chris King wrote on Apr 11, 2008 10:51 AM:

" I'm am grieved that so many simply refuse to adhere to an authentic Christian faith, rather they chose a cultural christianity, not based on the God of the Bible, but an imaginary god, made up with the attributes that they prefer. God is an amazingly loving and graceful Father. However, He does have attributes of vengeance and righteous anger. ALL attributes of God are imperative! When a leader of the faith fails to teach ALL attributes of God and focuses solely on God's grace, in reality they are denying the whole truth as God has revealed it in the Bible, and a powerful component that enables us to recognize our need for Jesus! Furthermore, take a look at this passage from the Bible, and you will understand why I am not concerned that those on this board may not personally like me. (The fact is that I don't care if you like me. It is not important in the least bit! What is important is that the Word of God is proclaimed unashamedly. I will not answer as to whether people on a local newspaper comment board liked me, but I will answer to the Father for doing my part to spread His word. In fact, if the world loves you, I would be a little unsure whether I adhered to authentic Christianity. Maybe try a book entitled Real Christianity, it may help.)

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that would live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But abide thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them.
2Ti 3:15 And that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work. "

About youtube video... wrote on Apr 11, 2008 9:44 AM:

" FOr all who say that this video is not on youtube... It says right here Minor in Tomah High School in WI, and shows the exact picture right there...GO SEEEEE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LrczdmW7550 "

To:Chris King wrote on Apr 11, 2008 9:36 AM:

" You weren't in Menomonie yesterday, were you? "

To:Grant Moseley wrote on Apr 11, 2008 9:30 AM:

" A very nicely stated post. You state your beliefs and your conclusion in such a manner that regardless of one's persuasion, they can see exactly where you are coming from. You don't have an agenda as many do on either side. I believe in freedom of speech and religious freedom. This student should receive more than a detention for the act against his teacher. That type of behavior is never appropriate in a classroom and shame on all of the people defending him because they somehow believe it is their Godly duty. Every act, just because it might be presented 'in the name of God', should not be condoned. Wake up and smell the coffee...he was wrong. "

Re-King Chris wrote on Apr 11, 2008 6:44 AM:

"
pompous

Pronunciation:
\ˈpäm-pəs\
Function:
adjective


1 : excessively elevated or ornate 2 : having or exhibiting self-importance : arrogant "

John Rosemond wrote on Apr 11, 2008 6:40 AM:

" For great parenting tips on how NOT to raise a brat, check out the John Rosemond site at the LaCrosse Tribune. "

To: Mr King wrote on Apr 11, 2008 5:35 AM:

" I would never teach my child to fear God. You would teach a child to fear God but not have respect for his teacher? I pray that you do not have children or not affiliated with youth in any way. This issue sure brings out the lunatic fringe. Regardless of one's stance on whether or not it is constitutional to disallow religious artwork, this student's actions were deplorable. His parent's reaction, the same. He is not a GOOD student and they are not GOOD parent's. They overreacted and are basking in the attention. This is all very negative and not Christian behavior. Period. "

Free Speech 2 wrote on Apr 10, 2008 11:26 PM:

" Reading all these posts and reviewing Alliance Defense Fund’s web page, I had an interesting thought:

A.P. and his family are not asking for financial compensation (how Christian of them). Although one of the things they are requiring (should they win) is that their legal expenses are paid. This of course means that ADF will be paid for their defense efforts. Likely this defense will likely cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe millions.

ADF is a non-profit organization. Non-profit does not mean that its employees are unpaid. ADF’s lawyers are paid for their work just like other lawyers. But, ADF’s ministry is to use lawyers to fight to spread the “Truth”, (meaning God’s word or at least their interpretation of God’s word) and punish the evil-doers. ADF is obviously a religious organization.

This is where it gets interesting… Should A.P. and ADF actually win, the school district, an entity of the Government, will be required to pay for the services of a religious organization. This payment will be used to pay their employees as well as extend their “Ministry.” So, should ADF win, and the school district pay them, constitutional law will be broken through the use of government funds to support a religious organization.

Maybe this was ADF’s intent from the start: To destroy the separation of Church and State by legally requiring government schools to support them.

Just a thought...unless it's true! "

brad wrote on Apr 10, 2008 9:05 PM:

" first i would like to say that i scanned through all comments....direspect...old days...kids listen to teachers....and so on. therefore i would like to ask you (if this country was founded with god in mind...which it was study your history...and the further you see god being pushed out of this country the worse it gets) if god or religion was in the schools in "the old days" than obviously the respect was there because everyone had morals and it was a common practice respect need not be taught then it was just known. the tearing of the paper may be viewed as dis-respect but removing god from schools is more disrespecting to the nation as a whole. removing religion from school is fine but all religion must be removed, then you are left with an atheist situation so when liberals try to make laws this is what happens only half of the law is thought out and when it fails a small problem creates a large problem. you cannot make a law to remove religion from school all you do is create another religion. every body believes something no matter if its christian..budda..hindu whatever you cannot make a law that abolishes that, only a liberal would half think a law as such. enough ranting. the only thing that needs to take place here is for this country to turn back around and head towards the beliefs,morals,and laws in which it was founded on. sorry to say but that means religion. christian religion specifically. and a.p. has a good head start for all of us to follow. now i realize this may not post. but if it does i strongly encourage the person who wishes to to bash and counter my post to dig into history and discover the problems with this country for your self. it can be seen very clearly im only 24 and i can pick up on the real problem with this situation i find it kind of funny that "adults" with their years of wisdom are so blind to the truth of reality. so take a step back and look at how pathetic you look to a 24 yr old "

I just can't believe this wrote on Apr 10, 2008 8:09 PM:

" Mrs. Millin (and the other Tomah H.S. teachers)thank you for being her for children, it has to be tough when no matter what you do it feels like it is wrong. I sure think it is strange that the rule was made to avoid problems and because a student was raised to believe that he doesn't need to follow rules he doesn't like; this happens. I think we have taken a bad road in the U.S. when students learn that if you don't like a rule, don't follow it, go to court someone will make it a bigger issue than you following rules. "

To: Chris King wrote on Apr 10, 2008 7:54 PM:

" You wouldn't know the truth if it smacked you in the head with a 2X4. "

Agree to Disagree wrote on Apr 10, 2008 6:47 PM:

" Great post Mr. Moseley, you hit the nail on the head.
I checked out these "demonic" pictures they compare and I would have to say that they are not from the same assignment and a way of embellishing their real motive the CHILD and PARENTS were trying to make. First off, I would have to say if that was my child's drawing that they photographed and compared to AP's, I would be suing, did they have permission to use those artists work as comparison?? And why those?? Who is to say those are demon's??? Hello, have you seen any video games or cartoon's.....with that said I must say that the creativity and detail of the "demon's" was better work then AP's....Landscapes have many crosses, just not floating words..... "

FresnoJoe wrote on Apr 10, 2008 6:23 PM:

" FresnoJoe Has Got To Go!
Love To You And Be Blessed Bro!

Making The Point

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

The Greatest Verse In The Bible*

"God" - The Greatest Person
"So Loved" - The Greatest Devotion
"The World" - The Greatest Number
"He Gave" - The Greatest Act
"His Only Begotten Son" - The Greatest Gift
"That whosoever Believeth" - The Greatest Condition
"Should Not Perish" - The Greatest Mercy
"Have Everlasting Life" - The Greatest Result

*The New Open Bible", Study Edition Copyright 1990 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

Will The Truth Be Found In The Land Of Forward
Here O Badger Look Up, See Your God The LORD

"Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied." Jude 1:2

Thank You All Who Answered My Post
May You Be Blessed By God The Most

"The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace." Numbers 6:24-26

Love From FresnoJoe
(Save Some Brats For Me!) "

To: Chris King wrote on Apr 10, 2008 5:23 PM:

" You don't seem to be very well liked on these boards for such a Godly man. Christians don't like you speaking for them and other's really don't care for you. Why would that be? Truly spiritual people, whether Christian, Jewish or whatever are usually such a pleasure to be around. You can just feel their warmth and love. You are, as someone put it on another board, pompous. Not a very Christian quality, in fact I find nothing about your rants Christian. You spew out all kinds of words to make YOURSELF feel superior. You are ridiculous and way too full of YOURSELF. And the parent's of A.P. are not teaching him the proper way to disagree. Sad situation. "

Re:Chris King wrote on Apr 10, 2008 3:08 PM:

" There needs to be a special hell for people like you. Your arrogance drips from every post.I bet you do nto even have a kid or have never tauight a day of school in yiur life.God if he does exist must vomit at the sight of what you post on here. "

Chris King wrote on Apr 10, 2008 1:12 PM:

" Even if you agree that the CHILD acted inappropriately toward the teacher, it still does not excuse a school policy that infringes upon a child's constitutional rights! Furthermore, all of you that are complaining about A.P.'s parents and their responsibilities in child rearing, had better take a long look in the mirror. How are your parenting skills? Did you know that biblically speaking it is a parent's duty to raise them with a fear of God. It is your responsibility as parents to teach your children God's commands and attributes. How well are all of you doing with THOSE responsibilities? Probably not very well, as most of you seem to feel that "religion" only belongs in the home and church. I'm sorry to tell most of you this, but a person's faith, if it is a real faith, is not shut off when they enter a government school. Just because you have hang ups and at this point are unable to muster up the courage to swallow your pride and recognize that you do need God, doesn't mean that a child of God has to sensor themselves for you comfort. The reality is that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the truth of truths and the answer to humanity's search for meaning. Without the guidance of the Holy Spirit we are not capable of facing the fact that all of us are condemned by a vengeful God for our sinful actions, but for the grace God demonstrated when he sacrificed his only Son on the cross, so that in spite of our sins, we can have everlasting fellowship with God, if we believe upon Jesus. Pride is the single reason that so many are unwilling to humble themselves before God, and pride is why you all feel that it is necessary to prohibit any expression that may cause you discomfort. The ultimate truth of Jesus Christ is like a spotlight on our souls. It brings our demons into the light and causes us to reflect upon our complete despair without God. It is not surprising that those who refuse to believe in the One, True God are attempting to stifle something that causes their pride to be pricked! However, the constitutional freedom of speech is imperative to the Christian's ability to spread this ultimate truth, and that is why I and other Christians must have the confidence to stand against tyranny that would threaten our right to spread the truth of Christ! For anyone that may wish to understand what the Bible states about humanity's fallen nature, start with Romans Ch. 1, verse 16 "

Support the Teacher! wrote on Apr 10, 2008 12:37 PM:

"
Respect!

"

Fresno joe must go wrote on Apr 10, 2008 10:13 AM:

" I do not adhere to your book so please no more quotes from the manual. "

Bravo Mr. Moseley wrote on Apr 10, 2008 9:41 AM:

" I would just like to say "Thank You". Now, let us hope the young man & his family/lawyer are reading these posts. I also like to read these every now & again, and I would be ashamed of my children if they were to do what he did to Mrs. Millin(?) There is a time & a place for your views on religion, and if he signed an agreement, before doing the project, then he needs to follow the rules. I feel you have expressed, rather well, what needs to happen. No lawsuit, no discord amongst this community, an apology to the teacher and then learn from our mistakes. Again, thank you Grant Moseley, very well stated. "

To:Fresno Joe wrote on Apr 10, 2008 9:35 AM:

" Just keep talking...you make everyone's point for them. Yikes! Must be smokin' something. "

FresnoJoe wrote on Apr 10, 2008 9:25 AM:

" What Is Art?
Does It Grow From Taxes?
Is It Made For Axes?

Does Anyone See

"But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth." James 3:14

The Love Of God?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

In The Heart Of A Kid?

Does Anyone Care?
In This Land Of The Free?
The LORD Does

So To One And All
And The Tomah Kid Too

'The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace." Numbers 6:24-26

From Fresno With Love GBY "

To: Big wrote on Apr 10, 2008 8:55 AM:

" Scrip·ture (skrpchr)
n.
1.
a. A sacred writing or book.
b. A passage from such a writing or book.


I don't see where it is commonly found floating in clouds above Tomah or anywhere else. Unless you have taken a hit of LSD...then one might see words in the clouds. But they still shouldn't be included in a LANDSCAPE in a PUBLIC school art project. Get it now? "

To: A Big Deal wrote on Apr 10, 2008 8:05 AM:

" land·scape (lndskp)
n.
1. An expanse of scenery that can be seen in a single view: a desert landscape.
2. A picture depicting an expanse of scenery.
3. The branch of art dealing with the representation of natural scenery.
4. The aspect of the land characteristic of a particular region: a bleak New England winter landscape.
5. Grounds that have been landscaped: liked the house especially for its landscape. "

To: Big Deal wrote on Apr 10, 2008 7:57 AM:

" I believe you are the one in the box. You might want to climb out of it and #1. View the picture #2. Find the proof that other drawings associated with this particular assignment contain demons. #3. Realize that we are a diverse culture with many religions #4. Learn about teaching and parenting teenagers. #5. Look up the definition landscape. "

Mr Baun wrote on Apr 10, 2008 7:52 AM:

" I am sure many things were different when you were in school. That doesn't mean they were better. We have made great strides in this country and that is reflected in our school system. I suggest you enroll your child in a private school. The art rule doesn't discriminate against any religion. Find God in you heart, not with the "in your face" attitude that some like to use. A.P. was aggressive, disrespectful and certainly not showing any hint that he has God in his heart. In the "Good Old Days" that you refer to, he would have been spanked. That might be a good idea today too. "

To: Michael Baun wrote on Apr 10, 2008 7:36 AM:

" Check in somewhere...anywhere...


Recycle! "

Re: Michael Baun wrote on Apr 10, 2008 7:24 AM:

" I teach that there is a scientific explanation for the origin of life( Darwin). I also read to them a variety of creation myths from various world religions.If you insist that only your version of these events be taught, t you need to go to, or send your kids to, a religious school not a public high school. "

Michael Baun wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:05 PM:

" I have read over the comments. I find it unfortunate that many apparently do not understand that the activity engaged in by the school is unamerican activity. Such suppresion of religious expression would have been unthinkable when I was in school. I do not envy students that have schoolmaster's that teach they are the decendents of apes. Considering they teach such foolish things it is no wonder they also consider it ok to engage in lawless anarchy and treating the constitution of the United States like it was toilet paper. Afterall an ape would not know better! "

Regarding beautiful drawing wrote on Apr 9, 2008 7:36 PM:

" It's not. You might want to check it out before you make statements regarding it. "

To: A Big Deal wrote on Apr 9, 2008 7:24 PM:

" Edited? Doesn't surprise me! The religious often resort to some pretty low down name calling in the name of God. And maybe you should try traveling...and that doesn't mean Iowa or Branson. "

re Michael Baun wrote on Apr 9, 2008 6:32 PM:

" You must be confused. This is a PUBLIC school not a christian one. "

re: big deal wrote on Apr 9, 2008 6:19 PM:

" So there are landscapes with bible verses scripted in the air some place. Besides the heads of the local christian taliban. "

re: miss brown wrote on Apr 9, 2008 6:17 PM:

" None of the art in the hallways was done as a graded assignment.The painting of god's hand reaching towards Adams hand from the Cisteen chapel is classic art and the painting on Vishnu no one even knew it was a god but Mr. Dull and Mr. Carney who teach the Inda units in their world history classes. "

miss brown wrote on Apr 9, 2008 5:36 PM:

" I'm slightly confused as to why there is any complaint of the student's work. The news report mentioned that the school allows other artworks with religous content to be displayed publically on grounds. It therefore seems to be a conflict of interest in school policy that dictates no student shall submit any works with religous content for assessment.
Futhermore, the idea that any art work with sexual content is not allowed is preposterous. I am forced to wonder if that mandate includes studying nude works like Rodin's "The Thinker", De Vinci's "Vetruvian Man" or any of Bottecelli's works. It's art. It's supposed to challenge pre-conceived ideas, broaden the mind and reflect ideals and dreams. Not be stifled by rules 100 years out of date. "

A Big Deal wrote on Apr 9, 2008 4:48 PM:

" No I haven't seen the drawing, but I would like to! It sounds beautiful! You people sound so......better not say it, my last post got edited! Another example of "free speech" being limited! Try not to think outside the box too much people, you might hurt yourself! YAY A.P., don't back down! P.S. Did the rules say it had to be a LANDSCAPE from around here?? Try getting out of Wisconsin, there is more to the world. "

just a thought wrote on Apr 9, 2008 4:35 PM:

" I work within the tomah school district. Am also a former graduate of Tomah. My children went to a surrounding school district. If the kids at that school were to come dressed like the ones at tomah are they would be sent home to change. Girls with skin tight skirts on that barely cover they're butt. Shirts with cleavage that can't get any lower without revealing everything. Maybe we should quit worrying about art landscape. Don't any parents out there teach kids how to be moral anymore and respect themselves? "

To: Michael Baun wrote on Apr 9, 2008 3:07 PM:

" Are you friends with Chris King?



Reject! "

To: A big deal wrote on Apr 9, 2008 3:00 PM:

" A church in the landscape would have been fine. You apparently haven't seen the drawing. Or you are so brainwashed that you can't see it for what it is...I have never seen what A.P. portrayed in any LANDSCAPE around here. Did you get that? L-A-N-D-S-C-A-P-E Give me an L, what does it spell? LANDSCAPE! "

To: A.P. parent's wrote on Apr 9, 2008 2:55 PM:

" You need guidance on child rearing. John Rosemond, who has a column in the LaCrosse Tribune, would be a good start. "

melvin wrote on Apr 9, 2008 2:42 PM:

" I agree TOTALLY with Grant.
It's time for PARENTS to take the responsibility of raising their children NOT the school. But it seems as though it is left up to schools to teach RESPECT, RESPONSIBLITY AND CONSEQUENCES. AP was WRONG!APOLOGIZE! "

A big deal? wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:52 PM:

" Well then yes, maybe I am a brat. So if he took the numbers and words out would you people be happy? or how bout he move them so the words are on the cross, most of the LANDSCAPES i've seen with crosses had words ON the cross! Have you never seen a cross along side of a highway where someone had been killed? Or on some movies where it shows a peaceful hillside where someone is buried? Who knows where A.P. saw this landscape, or if he even phyically saw it at all, maybe he just saw it in his mind and made it up. Or maybe he did see floating letters, I myself haven't, but anything is possible with God right?? "

To: Michael Baun wrote on Apr 9, 2008 1:14 PM:

" What rambling drivel. Are you on drugs? They must be really good ones. "

To: A.P. wrote on Apr 9, 2008 12:27 PM:

" Apologize to this teacher. You were out of line. And Mr Moseley ...nice post. "

Michael Baun wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:25 AM:

" The school district is engaging in anarchy by not upholding the rights enumerated in the constitution. Apparently the school board upholds such anarchy that promotes trampeling of religious speech and expression too.

The first amendment is does not read, "Thou shall say nothing that offends another." Such a view of "tolerance" is embraced by facist and communist governments, certainly not law abiding citizens of the United States.

It is too bad the district attorney did not take action in this case and advise the school district that its actions were outside the pale of law.

Perhaps a scholarship will be offered to attend a school that actually teaches students vs. admonishes them for citing the Bible in a work of art.


Where is the shame of discipling a student for quoting the Word of God?

Repent!
"

Grant Moseley wrote on Apr 8, 2008 6:42 PM:

" Dear AP: If you read this, I want you to know I am writing as a Christian, who believes in , literal six twenty-four hour day creation, Noah's flood, the Tower of Babel, the virgin birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, the cross, the resurection, forgiveness of sin, salvation by grace alone, heaven and hell, and final judgement. With that in mind, please consider the following.

Apparently you signed something agreeing that you would include no religous references in an art project. I think it is wrong to prohibit your religous expression, but nevertheless you agreed in writing to it. You should have raised the issue before agreeing to follow the rules. As a Christian, with the Bible as your guide to faith and practice, you should follow the rules you agreed to. It doesn't matter what other art projects others did or didn't
do, you agreed and should do everything you could possibly do to keep your word. Maybe it was a mistake, but we all have made them, and hopefully you can learn something from it. I think that "just imagine" put it quite well in an earlier post.

Now, I don't know your heart. Was tearing up the agreement in front of the teacher an action taken in a moment of temptation or frustration(which we all have)? Are you normally respectful to those in authority over you? Do you treat your parents and elders with honor and respect? If so, and you committed this sin in a moment of weakness, ask God's forgiveness, and immediately write that teacher a letter of apology, and humbly go and present it to her, begging for her forgiveness. I know absolutely nothing about her, but even if she is an evil, God-hating atheist (I doubt it) you still owe her honor and respect, because your parents have chosen to have you educated by this institution, and until other choices are made, this school and teacher have authority over you.

On the other hand, if this was an act of defiance and rebellion, you need a change of heart. You need to honestly search your heart, read what the Bible says about pride, rebellion and arrogance, and ask God to change you. Do you know how we are to answer those who challenge our faith? 1 Peter 3:15 "with meekness and fear", not with a self righteous, smug, arrogant response.

I do not know which category you fit into, I certainly hope the first. Whichever, you have action to take, and the sooner the better.

And yes, you do have incredible artistic ability. With the right attitude, you can probably use it to bless many.

Grant Moseley


P.S. I read this forum occasionally. How come it is so rare to see a person leave their name?
"

2004 graduate of Tomah High wrote on Apr 8, 2008 5:38 PM:

" I'm a 2004 graduate of Tomah High. I think what AP (or whatever his name is) is suing for the wrong reasons and he shouldn't be suing at all. What's the next thing APs going to do...bring a gun to shoot the teachers because he thinks that he should have everything his way. Tomah High is a public school, not a private school. Leave all religion and other things outside of school. I was in at lot of the art classes and it's stated by the art teachers not to include any religion, death, or anything on the lines of something being disgraceful. When I attended highschool in Tomah, we never had any problems with art classes. Everyone followed the rules given by the school board and the teachers there at the high school. I understand that since I've graduated that the school has gone down hill. Don't you ever think that maybe some parents don't really care about what their child does. Not saying that all parents don't care, but there are some that don't. With students dressing the way they do such as wearing baggy pants, wear chains, wearing all black, and etc...I think that the parents should be taking some responsibility in teaching their children whats wrong and whats right. Back to the art project...I think it's really weird that AP and his parents didn't take it to the School Board like what most people would do. What are his parents and him out for? I think that AP needs to grow up. FYI AP, when you get into college and your suppose to do a project, make sure you follow the rules. Don't think that you're going to sue the college because you can't follow rules, because it aint going to work. So what I think is that people need to start relizing that you're not going to get very thing handed down to you. "

Unbelievable wrote on Apr 8, 2008 5:13 PM:

" These kind of so called "Christian's" are ridiculous....but they got their 15 minutes of fame inflamed with falsehood by using examples from a different class to make their point. Shame on them, this assignment was about a landscape of which I have seen plenty of religous looking landscapes but no floating words....why did he not respect the teacher and add the words after grading rather than cause a big fight in a small town. These types of "Christain's" are the ones that make a bad name of Christain's by setting a poor example of being a Christian. "

To: a big deal? wrote on Apr 8, 2008 4:35 PM:

" Nuts!!??? Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. So you're a brat just like A.P. "

To: You tube wrote on Apr 8, 2008 4:31 PM:

" LOL...no, I don't think Chris King would post on You Tube. He's way too holy for that site. "

To: Big Deal wrote on Apr 8, 2008 4:29 PM:

" In all the LANDSCAPES you viewed, was there floating scripture? Floating Satanic verse? I have seen sky writing planes or the ones that pull a banner. Maybe those were in your LANDSCAPES. Or maybe your nuts...as you accuse the other posters of being. "

re: just imagine wrote on Apr 8, 2008 3:11 PM:

" I agree with you - these kids have no idea what life will be like once they are out of school. If it were my child, I would be ashamed, not of his artwork, but how he disrespted the adult(Mrs. Millin) and what will happen to him once he does get a job. Mommy & Daddy won't be there to have some lawyer try to get his job back. He broke the rules and if you do that - he deserves exactly what he got!!!!!!!!!!!! "

??? wrote on Apr 8, 2008 2:27 PM:

" OK...Now I may be wrong here, in High School I took "Law"...One thing we learned was that if you are under 18 no matter what you are signing is not considered a legal document. Is that not true? ~ AP's assignment was to draw a landscape. There have been several times that I have saw a cross in the landscape...I believe there is one on the way back to Tomah from LaCrosse, (it does not appear to be burning)...However, I have NEVER saw a scripture written in the sky. ~ We all have been taught to respect our elders. (Mrs. Millin) AP showed clear disrespect for authority by tearing up the document. Thus he deserved the detention. Mrs. Millin was following rules that have been set. Could it possibly be that AP would not like to see other students religious beliefs drawn out in their artwork. ~ "

Support your teacher wrote on Apr 8, 2008 2:22 PM:

" Support the teacher. Discipline the student. Throw the case out of court. Ridiculous waste of time. And A.P....concentrate on college. High school is a blink of an eye...you will have to follow the rules there and when you become employed. You're ridiculous and your parent's are too. "

You Tube wrote on Apr 8, 2008 2:06 PM:

" Go to "You Tube" and search: Unacceptable Christian Artwork. This story is everywhere! I think it's Chris King. "

just wondering wrote on Apr 8, 2008 1:29 PM:

" In my eariler statement I had a typo error. I said that "As for the different objects used in the history class, I do not believe that these are not being used to promote other religons, these are being used to teach history". I should have said "I do not believe that these are being used to promote other religons, I feel that these are being used to teach history". Sorry for the error. "

A big deal? wrote on Apr 8, 2008 1:10 PM:

" I understand now, most of you people on here are nuts! Good luck A.P.! I would have done the exact same thing. That school district had it coming to them! Thank you for standing up for what you believe! You did not deserve to be treated like that. And for everyone's information..I've seen plenty of LANDSCAPES with crosses on them..wish there was a way I could post the pictures on here. "

RTFM wrote on Apr 8, 2008 10:33 AM:

" God made me an atheist! Who are you to question his wisdom? The sniveling student was wrong, the teacher and district are in the right here. "

To:the contract was voided wrote on Apr 8, 2008 10:29 AM:

" Your name isn't Chris King, is it? If not, you must be an associate of his. Seek psychiatric help. "Fire the Teacher"...you are out of your mind. "

THE CONTRACT WAS VOIDED wrote on Apr 8, 2008 9:23 AM:

" Because the "TEACHER" let DEMONS drawn by other students continue the contract is "NULL & VOID"

The fact that other students were allowed to draw DEMONS and that is TOTALLY ALLOWABLE BY THIS SO CALLED TEACHER IS DISGUSTING

This was all about RELIGIOUS REPRESSION PERIOD and that is ILLEGAL unless your a Christian in the US

This will cost the School district big money before this is all settled

This teacher needs to be FIRED before anymore RELIGIOUS REPRESSION IS DONE AND MORE LAWSUITS ARE ENTERED INTO

The mere FACT that the so-called "TEACHER" made the student sign a contract, (which by the way is useless in court unless the child was of legal age) only shows the true meaning of the so-called "TEACHERS intentions

FIRE THIS TEACHER AND BE DONE WITH "INTOLERANCE" and non "DIVERSE" TEACHERS after all we here about TOLERANCE AND DIVERSITY and to pull this it's unexceptionable and only shows those that CLAIM TOLERANCE AND DIVERSITY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE OPPOSED TO IT'S TRUE MEANING "

just wondering wrote on Apr 8, 2008 8:49 AM:

" Was it the cross he was asked to remove or was it the bible verse? From what I heard, he was asked to remove the bible verse not the cross because it was supposed to be landscape picture. Talking to other parents who's kids are in high school I understand that there have been times when other students have been asked to remove stuff from different projects and were told they could add it later after the project was graded. I do not agree with the paper he had to sign but that is not the teachers fault, that is our government. Shame on them. So lets not take our anger out on Mrs. Millin. I believe that you have every right to express your beliefs in school as long as you are not trying to promote it. (Because of the law)For example: wearing a religous shirt is ok as long as you are not standing in the hall yelling and trying to gather a crowd. I am glad that this student is standing up for what he believes in and more people should do that. But lets make sure that we put the blame on the right people. As for the different objects used in the history class, I do not believe that these are not being used to promote other religons, these are being used to teach history. We need to stay focused and not turn into the same kind of people that are running our government. "

Even if... wrote on Apr 8, 2008 7:40 AM:

" Even if this student wins this lawsuit on the constitutional basis, the drawing is a C- at best. And there is no way the detentions should not be on his record. Is that what anyone wants? Regardless of what a student is disgruntled about, this kind of behavior should NEVER be tolerated. Come on people...even those of you who think the cross and verse should be there can't possibly think that his behavior was acceptable. "

To: Re The law #2 wrote on Apr 8, 2008 7:26 AM:

" God should be in your heart. The landscape drawing was inappropriate. If you need to inflame and disregard the rules, draw a sub par landscape complete with floating verse to proclaim your spirituality, then I feel sorry for you. "

To:A Big Deal wrote on Apr 8, 2008 7:23 AM:

" All of the demons you speak of. Do you know if any of the students assigned this landscape project put demons in the horizon and Satanic verse floating in the clouds? I think not. You are missing the point. It wasn't an assignment to draw what you want...it was a LANDSCAPE...it was inappropriate in a LANDSCAPE. If he was assigned to draw a bowl of fruit, there should not be crosses, stars, Biblical or Satanic verse written on the bananas. He didn't follow the rules for the assignment. He deserves a zero and deserves more punishment than he received for ripping up the document. What do you not understand? "

woundering wrote on Apr 8, 2008 7:02 AM:

" If AP had drawn the cross but left off the Bible verse and phrase, would the drawing been acceptable? "

re: a big deal wrote on Apr 8, 2008 6:08 AM:

" Define demon? "

Support the teacher... wrote on Apr 8, 2008 4:30 AM:

" Support the teacher. This kid is surrounded by people who are enjoying trying to inflame in the name of religion. He could have and should have drawn a gorgeous landscape showing God's wonder in the form of nature. SUPPORT THE TEACHER! "

Christian Images? wrote on Apr 7, 2008 11:52 PM:

" In the lawsuit, (seen on ADF’s web page) it shows three images, one of a landscape with a cross and two which are presumed, of demonic beings.
I have seen both a cross and a landscape in person, therefore I can identify both when I see them in a picture.
Since I have never seen a demonic being in person, I have no idea if the other two pictures are accurate depictions of demonic beings. Would someone that has seen a demonic being in person, (dreams or drug induced visions don’t count) please authenticate these pictures for us?

If no one has seen a demonic being in person, we must assume these are Fantasy pictures, or pictures of imaginary subjects.

If someone HAS seen a demonic being in person, and it resembled one of these images…
Let me see if I have this right,
Christians believe in Heaven and Hell.
Christians believe in Satan.
Many Christians believe in demonic beings that help Satan.
So…doesn’t that make Satanic or demonic images, pictures of Christian beliefs?
So, two out of the three pictures depicting Christian beliefs were accepted and the third wasn’t.
Two out of three isn’t too bad. Why are the Christians complaining?
"

MVC wrote on Apr 7, 2008 11:08 PM:

" The lawsuit also alleges school officials allow other religious items and artwork to be displayed on campus.

A Buddha and Hindu figurines are on display in a social studies classroom, the lawsuit claims, adding the teacher passionately teaches Hindu principles. "

re: to constitutional wrote on Apr 7, 2008 9:09 PM:

" Duh.....the drawings that you refer to were not part of the landscape assignment in A.P.'s class. "

Confused wrote on Apr 7, 2008 8:23 PM:

" Is the drawings of the mythical creatures from the same assignment of landscape?? Or were these chosen as "examples" of other things. I would think those examples were not from the same assignment, just a thought. "

re: Grant wrote on Apr 7, 2008 6:45 PM:

" yes, to both of your questions. You can view the actual case document on the Alliance Defense Fund website under most viewed stories. "

the problem wrote on Apr 7, 2008 6:08 PM:

" Teachers are now paranoid to enforce any standards in the building. We don't want to mess with their rights. That should go a long ways towards creating a real mess at the high school.I want to thank the Hessh cult and this boys family personally for this disastor.god bless you all. "

A big deal? wrote on Apr 7, 2008 5:44 PM:

" I'm still having a little trouble understanding this whole situation...So this student was given a failing grade because he included a cross in drawing? Yet other students draw things with demons and satanic, and other gods depicted in them? Why was a cross such a big deal? I know religion isn't banned in school, any kind as far as that goes. The bible studies they have, the prayer around the flag pole in the morning etc. are all examples of that. Then why is drawing a cross such a big deal?? I remember when I was in high school..which wasn't long ago at all..and I was an active member in Showchoir and Choir class, we sang songs at Christmas time that were religious, and we even did the musical Joseph and the amazing technicolor dreamcoat...why wasn't that a big deal then? "

Re: The Law wrote on Apr 7, 2008 2:48 PM:

" Maybe the problem is that you love "religion?" It's not about religion. It's about salvation through Jesus Christ! How can you honestly call yourself a believer, but say that God only belongs at church and home? True believers understand that it is impossible to separate God from anything. God's providence is in every aspect of life, not just church and home. In fact, I don't believe God himself cares much for religion! "

RE: The Law wrote on Apr 7, 2008 1:40 PM:

" Just because I believe that AP was in the wrong DOES NOT mean that I hate religion. Our family attends church, my kids are in Sunday School and Confirmation Class, we pray at dinner time. I believe! That is where God belongs, at church and home. Where we are among fellow believers of our faith.
School is intended for a different kind of learning. Mrs. Millin was teaching AP to follow rules and direction. AP needs to apologize to Mrs. Millin, and the school district. Then, he will need to apologize to all the students and the tax payers of Tomah. "

Grant Moseley wrote on Apr 7, 2008 1:36 PM:

" Before I add any comments, I would like to ask the following questions:

1.Is it an established fact that AP signed a form agreeing to certain guidelines clearly established by the teacher?

2. Is it a fact that AP tore up that agreement in front of the teacher?

If someone will assure me that both questions would be answered yes, I will add comments later.
"

Rules? wrote on Apr 7, 2008 11:57 AM:

" SOcrates stated " that within each government lies the seeds for its own desrtuction. In democracy it is freedom. Freedom taken to extreme is anarchy." Why didn't the student protest the rule when he was asked to sign the contract? By the way, freedoms- especially speech- are not all encompassing-(unless you are on a web site like this. Why are teachers constantly reminded- by the same people that quote the dribble on this site- that teachers must stay clear of their religious views- but it o>k> for students. Wake up and understand that the form of expression is not allowed in school and support the teacher. "

TheLaw wrote on Apr 7, 2008 10:54 AM:

" And also -- I think some of you need to go back and read the Supreme Court's 1969 decision in Tinker v. Des Moines, which clearly states that students do NOT "shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate." The fact that some of you obviously hate religion does not, I repeat, DOES NOT, give you the right to take away his constitutional rights. Period! "

Constitutional wrote on Apr 7, 2008 10:11 AM:

" For all those who are claiming that AP did not follow the rules...have you seen the two pictures submitted by other students that depicted a demon, and nothing else? How exactly is that "following the rules?" I didn't see any semblance of a landscape in those drawings. Oh, I forgot -- rules only apply to Christians. "

Not from area wrote on Apr 7, 2008 7:16 AM:

" I don't know who Heesh is, but if he's associated with this Chris K. person who keeps writing in, you guys are in trouble! "

Student was wrong wrote on Apr 7, 2008 7:14 AM:

" He can wear religious shirts, necklaces, decorate his car with religious symbols, sing Christmas carols, attend Bible study, and pray silently all day long. When asked to draw a landscape, he could have drawn a beautiful scene depicting the beautiful world that God created. Instead he chose to draw a crummy landscape and attempt to inflame by putting a cross in the horizon and scripture floating in the air. What a brat. If this were my son he'd be complaining about his constitutional rights from his bedroom where he'd be grounded. "

Christian extremists wrote on Apr 7, 2008 6:37 AM:

" Just saw on the nesw this morning that a christian extremist group is condeming Reedsburg Wisconsin schools because they let kids dress up for a day as someone of the opposite gender or an old person. They consider this a threat( probably part of the "gay agenda" whatever that is).At what point to we put the girls in burkas? Wake up. "

After all, what could go wrong? wrote on Apr 6, 2008 8:21 PM:

" Some high school kid could draw pictures of his grandparents when the family comes back from visiting them this summer. His family could be social and religious conservatives.

When he turns in his art assignment he gets a zero because it includes the flag of Turkey, where his grandparents are from; and he gets arrested by Homeland Security for drawing pictures of terrorists in the desert (his grandparents are devout Muslims who live in Arizona).

He gets shipped to Egypt for some torture, to Lebanon for some more, and winds up in Guantanamo where they discover their mistake but it takes them another four years to free him without further explanation and no charges being brought against him. By that time we'll all have forgotten him because he's Arab anyway, and the ongoing Crusades are really getting nasty ever since Israel nuked Iran and blamed it on the U.S.A. "

just imagine..... wrote on Apr 6, 2008 7:44 PM:

" that it is now June 9th- three days after A.P.'s high school graduation. He is hired by a local contractor to do a landscape mural for a business in town. A.P. meets with the business owner who lays out what he wants on his wall. The instrustions are explicit as to the mural size, type of medium to be used and no reference to violence, blood, sexual or religious connotations. He is also given a deadline.

A.P. accepts the job by signing a contract. He works diligently for about 4 weeks on the mural. The business owner as well as his employer check on his progress from time to time. They seem pleased with what he is doing as he is following the directives laid out by the contract.

A.P. finishes the landscape mural before the deadline. He is anxious to collect his commission for the job. He proudly shows it to the business owner. The business owner isn't quite sure what to make of it due to the fact that A.P. has taken some personal liberties with the mural by adding his own beliefs into the drawing.

The business owner calls A.P.'s employer to come over and look at the finished project. They have a meeting with A.P. to discuss the mural and the added items. The contract, which bears his signature, is brought out to show A.P. exactly what he was hired to do. A.P. gets flustered and grabs the contract out of his employers hand and tears it into little pieces. A.P. then leaves the room.

The following day these decisions are made about A.P.'s work:
1. no commission will be given to him since he didn't follow the proposed contract
2. he is fired from his job because of the disrespectfulness shown towards his boss

Moral of the story- in the real adult world when a contract is signed it cannot be broken without consequences.

"

It's time wrote on Apr 6, 2008 4:45 PM:

" It is time citizens in this town opened their eys to the cultlike church groups that started with Heesh and continue. They are not much different, although not as abusive, as the wacko cult or the radical Latter Day Saints groups.They need to start their own cult schools and leave the rest of the citizens out of this insanity. "

Support for the teacher wrote on Apr 6, 2008 12:09 PM:

" The student was WRONG. Both in the way he completed the assignment and his disrespectful behavior afterwards. I am appalled at the parents also. If this were my child he would apologize to the teacher and be further punished at home. He was looking for trouble. "

Free Speech? wrote on Apr 5, 2008 11:52 PM:

" This issue has nothing to do with freedom of speech. If the artwork in question had contained a sexual image such as a phallus, instead of a cross, the majority of the religious community and especially Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) would be supporting the teacher’s decision to enforce the written agreement.

The teacher’s ONLY correct response was to reject the assignment and give a zero. If she had given any other grade, even an F, that would imply that the drawing was acceptable, but of poor quality.

A.P. signed an agreement, when he joined the class, not to include religious themes in his artwork. A.P. did not say, “ I forgot that was what I agreed to do”. This artwork was made with forethought and deliberation toward violating that agreement. This is called a breach of contract.

If A.P. was not willing to abide by the requirements of the class, then he should have either petitioned for withdrawing from the class or not signed up for it in the first place.

On A.P.’s defense team’s (ADF) web page at: http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/about/Employment/
It has a “Statement of Faith” that you must agree to in order to view the open positions in their organization. Apparently they understand the significance of an agreement that may exclude some people from their group. So, the only people that can see open positions, and therefore apply for employment, either must agree to their requirements, or lie and say that they agree.

Employees of ADF must also agree to “abide by the practices and policies of ADF, including without limitation, those that pertain to corporate religious activities, beliefs, and practices.” as well as several other requirements even during “Non-working hours”.

Thank God, that the Tomah School district doesn’t require it’s art students to live by the same standards as A.P.’s defense team! At least A.P. and all other Tomah students can freely express themselves in artwork and other forms during their time away from school!

ADF also requires that it’s employees, ”refrain from statements and conduct that detracts from the biblical standards taught and supported by ADF”. And Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this is the group that is saying that A.P.’s agreement didn’t sign away his First Amendment Rights!

As far as ADF is concerned, does the word “Hypocrites” apply?

ADF is what I would call a Radical Christian Group. Their purposes are to aggressively intimidate and litigate anyone that, they feel, is infringing on their religious freedom. Their own “Guiding Principles” state: “ADF is Committed to Victory- We will prayerfully enter every battle expecting to win while always demonstrating respect towards those who oppose us.” Victory? Battle? Win? Oppose? This sounds militaristic, not “Love thy neighbor”

A.P. and ADF as well as any of their supporters must be willing to accept that, should they win, this would also allow other students the opportunity to express themselves. This may include not only objectionable but also directly Anti-Christian artwork to be presented as a student’s expression of themselves.

In closing I would like to say that I fully support A.P.’s right to put religious symbols in his artwork, and to his right to protest what he felt was an unfair agreement. What I do not support is the way he went about it, or the methods and motives of his “hired guns” ADF.
"

What would Jesus do? wrote on Apr 5, 2008 11:40 PM:

" This is a very interesting issue. First off, was the student aware of the grading policy? If the student was aware of this policy before he started his art project, then his actions were clearly driven by defiance. "

Re:Jess wrote on Apr 5, 2008 8:56 PM:

" Clearly you failed English when you were there. Let me guess another of the Heesh cult? "

JESS wrote on Apr 5, 2008 4:38 PM:

" I BELIEVE THIS KID IS DONING THE RIGHT THING IF A CHILD DRAWS A CROSS OR SUCH IT'S THEIR WHY TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES SO I THINK IT'S RIGHT TO TAKE THIS TO COURT I WENT TO TOMAH AND IT WAS NOT RIGHT WHEN IN THE HIGH SCHOOL YOU CAN DRAW SATAN AND GET AWAY WITH IT SO NOW IT'S A CROSS AND IT'S WRONG I THINK NOT!!! "

re: concerened parent wrote on Apr 5, 2008 4:09 PM:

" He had not violated any policy and YOU know it.Disingenous. "

Great teacher, bad district wrote on Apr 5, 2008 7:42 AM:

" Julie is a wonderful teacher and person!
The policy was probably developed to protect the students from creating inappropriate works of art. Were other students "commenting" about his drawing just because they wanted to get him (A.P.) in trouble? I really doubt they were truly offended. Was it even going to be on display?? Maybe she would have let it go, but was in a situation where she had to enforce the policy this time. The sad thing is, this should just be settled. Revise the guidelines for acceptable artwork. Clear his record, give him the $1 and MOVE ON. Then ADJUST! Admit that this policy MIGHT need to be changed, but explain WHY you have a policy. Do other Wisconsin districts have a policy like this?? Settle this before it does more damage. I think the district is choosing to fight this because they have a history of encouraging this negativity from the community. (Ever seen the blogs about the coaches, teachers!!) The people "in charge" don't want to be told what to do and will spend 100's of thousands of dollars in legal fees to protect their power rather than use common sense. The lawyers who make the big bucks from defending this are probably very happy to work for the Tomah School District. "

Concerned Parent wrote on Apr 5, 2008 5:36 AM:

" My child attends a public grade school in Tomah. In second grade he made a Christmas card for me at school. He wrote in it "Happy Birthday Jesus." I didn't realize until this hubbub that he had violated a school policy. "

Haybaler wrote on Apr 4, 2008 11:19 PM:

" Just kind of curious. If A.P. would have drawn a picture of Bill and Monica going at it in the White house would he get a passing grade??
I think not. If he drew a picture of a guy beating another guy with a baseball bat would he get a passing grade?? I think not. If he drew a picture of the guy laying in the street with his head caved in in a huge pool of blood would he get a passing grade?? I think not. Why don't I think he would get a passing grade? because he didn't follow the written grading policy.
Just my opinion but I think this kid, his parents, and the lawyers should be sharing the expense and pay back all that it has cost the school.
I feel sorry for his future bosses if he can't do a simple school assignment the way it was suppose to be done.
Julie I think you did everything right. Keep up the good work.
Keith "

A Time and Place wrote on Apr 4, 2008 10:19 PM:

" There is a time and place for everything, and for every topic or passion as it may be. This student will discover in the "real" world of further academics or the workplace that the policies must be followed and the adults are to be respected. His artwork obviously did not follow a landscape assignment -- he fails. One cannot write poetry for a US History essay! Nonetheless, I resent our school resources being WASTED on this lawsuit. I am a Christian, a parent, a taxpayer and a private teacher -- this is frivolous and nonsensical. In this day and age our administration should be paying attention to details that will benefit our students overall. This type of attention-seeking behavior does not serve anyone, but the lawyers. "

Let it be... wrote on Apr 4, 2008 8:38 PM:

" There is something that everyone needs to get straight here, students DO give up some of their consitutional rights upon entering a school building. This precedent was set during Vietnam War protests when courts ruled that newspapers could be censored by administrators. So, doesn't this issue fall under the same freedom of expression that courts took away from student run newspapers? Finally, does anyone else find it ridiculous that people used to sue public buildings for displaying religious artifacts and now public buildings are sued for NOT displaying religious artifacts. What do you expect schools to do??? It's a no win situation so get over it and move on or have your kids enroll at Aquinas. "

What The!!! wrote on Apr 4, 2008 3:50 PM:

" You all are just a bunch of busy bodies!!! Who are you to JUDGE!!!!! "

wondering wrote on Apr 4, 2008 3:45 PM:

" Many youth of today feel that they are ENTITLED to do whatever they darn well please- as it is in this case.

The assignment was plain and simple....draw a landscape without violence, blood, sexual connotations, or religious beliefs.

I took a drive out towards the Camp Douglas area figuring that maybe I would see where a bible verse was hanging in the clouds-unfortunately I was a bit disappointed when none was seen.

And here all this time I was told to look for the silver lining in the clouds!!!

"

Food for thought... wrote on Apr 4, 2008 12:24 PM:

" I find it very interesting that so much of this discussion has revolved around a cross, and its "symbolization" of the "christian faith". While everyone wants to profess that their christian rights are being trampled, you may want to re-evaluate your own form of worship. I believe these are from the 10 commandments: Deut 5:8,9
8 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God

Before you claim that a cross is not an idol, you may want to read the book of Deuteronomy and realize that God's anger was not just about the people worshipping false gods, but the fact that they were making statues, or idols, of everything, as a symbol of their worship.
Agree with me or not, it doesn't matter, I would hope that a persons being a christian wouldn't have to be expressed in a picture, but would be fully evident in the way they live their lives, especially in the face of adversity.
As for the personal attacks on Julie and the others, you may want to keep this in mind, Luke 6:37 “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven."

"

Bad Policy wrote on Apr 4, 2008 12:21 PM:

" With regards to Ms Millns policy, ANY landscape artwork is a violation of her policy of no religion. Pagan (which include Druids) and Native American cultures worship the Sun, the Moon,the Earth and the Sky. So unless students create an otherworldly piece of art, ALL of her students should recieve a zero for their projects! "

30 years... wrote on Apr 4, 2008 12:17 PM:

" This 30 year teacher deserves better than being dragged into court. Kid's a troublemaker...parent's are too. What a waste of time and energy. "

re:not a surprise wrote on Apr 4, 2008 12:12 PM:

" Obviously you did not take english, or grammar, or typing, or spelling in your time in school.Your post doesn't say much for the good job the folks at the Milwaukee street academy do. "

Dude wrote on Apr 4, 2008 12:08 PM:

" How is Millin a victim when the supreme court OF THE UNITED STATES ruled that it's a student has the right to free speech AND there's guidance from the US Department of Education (2003)stating that students are allowed to express their religon in classwork and artwork? Especially if other students are allowed to make art representing other religions AND other religious art work hangs in the hall for PUBLIC viewing? Yes, the student was disrepectful by not following the rules, yes, he shouldn't have torn up the policy, but the bottom line is that the policy is wrong. Besides, the art was not very good. Either he was not in class that day or she didn't cover the rule of thirds or the golden mean as it relates to composition in art. I would have given him a low grade just for that. I have to say i'm offended that she lumped Religion in with Blood, Violence and Sex as no no's. So if I were to paint a picture of Christ (Religion) on the cross (Violence and Blood)I'd probably fail the class! Good thing DaVinci, Michalangelo and other famous painters didn't get their start at Tomah High School!!! "

Former Tomah Residence wrote on Apr 4, 2008 12:07 PM:

" Unbelievable!!! As a former resident of Tomah, I cannot help but keep up with the news. If some of the ignorant persons would follow all the national news, you would have seen a cross with those words in a landscape on the campus of Northern Illinois University representing those that died in a tragic school shooting. A cross with a Bible verse can represent many different things. Is not art supposed to be subjective? I did not know I used to live in a liberal dictatorship area. "

not a suprise wrote on Apr 4, 2008 11:47 AM:

" This is not a shock to me! I am not from Tomah and moved here and was enrolled in the Tomah High School. From the very minute I walked in the door I was treated unfairly. I have NEVER seen a school like Tomah's. I was eventually expelled from the school and their main reason was for swearing....ok every teanager swears. This school favors kids and I have noticed it myself. I had been harrased by one kidin the school for the longest time, and when i had told the principal about it nothing was done! So when i ended up geting into a fight...it was all my fault. I thikn it's about time that this school is punished for their actions....After being expelled from this school I had gone to Milwaukee Street. I pulled my stuff together and graduated so I want as bad as the school made me out to be. I even wrote a report that I got to read in front of the school board about the way I was treated since the minute I walked into the Tomah High school. I remember one person even told me " I wanst good enough to go to the tomah high school." If you think about it, how can you punish this kid? There is no Catholic school for high-schoolers in tomah! Someone should not be punished because they made art work about their religous beliefs....Get a catholic school in this town for high-schoolers, or get half them teachers outta the high school. This is not that kids problem! Good luck in court I wish you the best, to the family. "

People wrote on Apr 4, 2008 11:06 AM:

" Support this teacher. No teacher should have to put up with this. I would have expelled the kid. NO STUDENT RIPS UP A DOCUMENT IN CLASS. It's wrong, period. He was just looking for a fight. This teacher is the victim. "

To: re Scott wrote on Apr 4, 2008 10:56 AM:

" Great post. I agree with you 100%. Everyone, get the chip off of your shoulder. He was given an assignment, disregarded the instructions, and when confronted, was disrespectful. He owes this teacher an apology. And his parent's should be ashamed of themselves for filing a lawsuit. It was supposed to be a LANDSCAPE. L-A-N-D-S-C-A-P-E!!! Get it? "

Interesting... wrote on Apr 4, 2008 10:49 AM:

" Check out the LaCrosse Tribune forum on this subject. 200+ comments. "

re:comment wrote on Apr 4, 2008 10:37 AM:

" You bet she does.She has been a good teacher darn near 30 years and does not deserve the smear put on her by the group "representing" this kid or the clowns at FAUX nEWS. "

Peggy Zahrte wrote on Apr 4, 2008 10:01 AM:

" I'm a great believer in separation of church and school, particularly when it comes to a teacher or student proselytizing to my child (my job, thank you very much).

However, any blanket ban in an art class or a creative writing class is problematic since the whole point is to be creative.

Of course if you allow religious content on the basis of free speech I don't see how you can eliminate sexual or violent content as long as it stays within the limit of the law. Anyone who takes a stroll through a good art museum is going to find a shocking amount of the contents sexual, violent and religious in nature-often in the same painting or sculpture. (If you doubt me google "Hieronymous Bosch, The Garden of Earthly Delights").

The best way to avoid these conflicts is to be very specific in assignments. In this case if the assignment was to paint or draw a representational landscape I doubt this student would be able to produce evidence that this landscape-complete with text-exists. If the assignment was to simply create a landscape it was completed properly and should have been graded strictly on artistic merit.

Personally, I probably wouldn't have given it much of a grade as it sounds derivative, wholly unoriginal and a little dull coming from someone supposedly passionate enough about their faith to file a lawsuit. But that isn't the same thing as just rejecting the legitimacy of religion as subject matter.

I would caution the student, if they win or settle this lawsuit, that making stands based on personal morality rarely come easy. When I was booted from French class in Junior High for wearing a black armband to protest our invasion of Cambodia I accepted my suspension, because I knowingly broke a stupid and unnecessarily restrictive rule. So my advice is don't make a stand unless you are willing to accept the consequences, fair or not. Someday you may have to make a difficult moral decision without a lawyer standing behind you.
"

Comment wrote on Apr 4, 2008 9:52 AM:

" This teacher needs a show of support. This kid was just gunning for a confrontation. He didn't follow instructions and was disrespectful to the teacher. Would you want your child ripping up a document in a teacher's face? She was only doing her job. The kid's a punk. "

re Scott wrote on Apr 4, 2008 9:41 AM:

" This student wears shirts every day procaliming his religious views. That is not a problem. This student can organize and host a noon hour christian bible study in classrooms if he wants that is no problem. This student can participate in the rally round the flag prayer day that is no problem. This student should NOT be able to ignore the boundaries of a classroom assignment, be it in art or English. So, when he gets assigned an essay on sailboats in English he can now write and essay on Jesus? Think about what your desires for freedom of expression within the classroom do to order in the clasroom. "

woooow wrote on Apr 4, 2008 9:34 AM:

" Religion or no religion, AP did not follow the rules....Nor did he follow the assignment that was set. When you look at the landscape out your window, do you see a cross that looks as if it is burning? Do you see scriptures floating in the sky? If this was what he wanted to draw, it should have been done at home or church. Rules are set for a reason, not to be pushed to the limits and then sued over. "

stcroixcounty wrote on Apr 4, 2008 9:22 AM:

" Hello?! Have these art teachers ever heard of Da Vinci's "The Last Supper"? What if in history that had been banned? Maybe the libs need a lesson on "tolerance". "

parent wrote on Apr 4, 2008 12:05 AM:

" I feel this kid should get a passing grade. Just for drawing a cross with John 3:16. Big deal if we are allowed to say the pledge of allegiance in school why cant a student draw a picture with that on it? People need to grow up and let kids be kids and allow them to be themselves and express themselves in anyway as long as its in good taste. "

Carol Bernhardt wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:30 PM:

" What is wrong with what this child did? Nothing. It would be a different thing if he was doing wrong? Isn't Art class an Expression of Ones self? Maybe if our children are allowed to express there feelings in art such as A.P. did. Tomah wouldn't have the problems it does. What a Great artist mind this child has..The Greatest ART work yet. This childs LOVE for God and his belief.. People READ John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life." WHAT A BEAUTIFUL EXPRESSION OF ARTISTIC ABILITY THIS CHILD HAS. HE SHOULD RECEIVE AN A+. "

Student wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:11 PM:

" Is it Mrs. Millin's grading policy prohibiting religious expression, or is it the school districts? I believe that Mrs. Millin is in a tough poisition here for simply doing her job. If an administrator would have seen this project and there had been nothing said about it from Mrs. Millin, she may have lost her job. Lets try not to make Millin look like an evil person, she's done nothing wrong! "

What is going on with this school district?? wrote on Apr 3, 2008 8:31 PM:

" Since when does the flunky business manager respond to questions from the media??? Is Bob Fasbender going to come out of hiding and actually earn his $120,000+ salary? You can bet your bottom dollar that this will get dumped on the teachers and another quality educator(s) will get trashed. If I were either of these teachers, I would start putting my resume together now.

I recently spoke with a coulee region union official who stated that the Tomah School District spends more money on legal fees defending it's administrators and board policy, than all the other MVC schools combined.

Don't believe me, ask to see the legal fees for the Tomah Area School district for the last ten years. You will either get sick to your stomach, or very, very angry. "

Scott Davey wrote on Apr 3, 2008 8:07 PM:

" When I saw this story on Fox News I was shocked! I graduated from Tomah in 1982, and cannot believe how this student has been treated. Since when, in America, does someone give up their constitutional rights in art class. If you replace 'Tomah' with 'Iran' this story would make more sense, but this is still the land of the 'free' isn't it?! I saw the other pictures that students have been allowed to draw--one was clearly a picture of a demon or satan. The school does not have a leg to stand on when they say it does not allow any religious pictures. Has anyone heard of satanic worship-or do they think that is just a joke? Or how about Buddhism, and Hinduism--do they know that these are religions? Yet they allow the social studies teacher to have these figurines in the classroom, and espouse Hindu practices to the students. Yeah, that's fair! I don't see anything hypocritical there! What about the six-limbed Hindu drawing in the hallway of the school! This is just another blatant example of how 'tolerence' means to be tolerant of everyone--except Christians! I just cannot believe it is my hometown school. I am very proud of this student for standing up to the school. I hope he gets a chance to read this and draw encouragement. In the words of Patrick Henry--'Give me liberty or give me death.' "

wondering wrote on Apr 3, 2008 5:16 PM:

" why didn't A.P.'s family go to the school board with their concerns first BEFORE they filed a suit??? The entire thing seems shady to me! "


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